Comments on: Ayende Bashes P&P http://www.chrisholmesonline.com/2007/05/18/ayende-bashes-pp/ Adventures in .NET, Agile Development, parenting, music, football, movies, and more... Mon, 13 Apr 2009 10:13:52 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8 hourly 1 By: Capon Luisa http://www.chrisholmesonline.com/2007/05/18/ayende-bashes-pp/comment-page-1/#comment-31874 Capon Luisa Thu, 10 Apr 2008 17:54:38 +0000 http://www.chrisholmesonline.com/2007/05/18/ayende-bashes-pp/#comment-31874 Thank you for the post. And I agre that the tools coming out of P&P are worth investigating as they are a good mixture of proven practices and code generation that can make applications better and developers more productive if used appropriately Thank you for the post. And I agre that the tools coming out of P&P are worth investigating as they are a good mixture of proven practices and code generation that can make applications better and developers more productive if used appropriately

]]> By: Dr. Deall http://www.chrisholmesonline.com/2007/05/18/ayende-bashes-pp/comment-page-1/#comment-17011 Dr. Deall Wed, 10 Oct 2007 20:41:19 +0000 http://www.chrisholmesonline.com/2007/05/18/ayende-bashes-pp/#comment-17011 Excellent comments and much appreciated if people like you didn’t blog and bring balance to the discussion then I am quite sure a few folks would read Ayende’s comments and make the decision not to use the P&P projects. Excellent comments and much appreciated if people like you didn’t blog and bring balance to the discussion then I am quite sure a few folks would read Ayende’s comments and make the decision not to use the P&P projects.

]]> By: Reusability vs. RYO - Fear and Loathing http://www.chrisholmesonline.com/2007/05/18/ayende-bashes-pp/comment-page-1/#comment-8401 Reusability vs. RYO - Fear and Loathing Tue, 29 May 2007 13:48:51 +0000 http://www.chrisholmesonline.com/2007/05/18/ayende-bashes-pp/#comment-8401 [...] Reusability vs. RYO Every so often, a topic brushes by my RSS feeds that I have to jump into and comment on. The latest foray is a conversation between Chris Holmes, Jeremy Miller, and Oren Eini. It started with Oren and a post about not particularly caring for what the Microsoft Patterns & Practices guys are producing (EntLib, CAB, SCSF, etc.) and ballooned here, here, and here. Oren started down the path that CAB (and other components produced by P&P) was overly complex and unnecessary. I'll focus on CAB but there are other smatterings of things from EntLib here. The main points Oren was getting across (if I read him correctly) was lack of real world applications backing what P&P is producing and overly complex solutions for simple(r) problems. Oren put together his version of the policy injection block (a recent addition to EntLib) in 40 minutes. Last night I was reading Jeremy Millers response and needed to chime in as I'm very passionate about a few things, namely Agile software development and CAB. [...] [...] Reusability vs. RYO Every so often, a topic brushes by my RSS feeds that I have to jump into and comment on. The latest foray is a conversation between Chris Holmes, Jeremy Miller, and Oren Eini. It started with Oren and a post about not particularly caring for what the Microsoft Patterns & Practices guys are producing (EntLib, CAB, SCSF, etc.) and ballooned here, here, and here. Oren started down the path that CAB (and other components produced by P&P) was overly complex and unnecessary. I’ll focus on CAB but there are other smatterings of things from EntLib here. The main points Oren was getting across (if I read him correctly) was lack of real world applications backing what P&P is producing and overly complex solutions for simple(r) problems. Oren put together his version of the policy injection block (a recent addition to EntLib) in 40 minutes. Last night I was reading Jeremy Millers response and needed to chime in as I’m very passionate about a few things, namely Agile software development and CAB. [...]

]]> By: Certifications and Software Development : Observations From Recent Blog Wars http://www.chrisholmesonline.com/2007/05/18/ayende-bashes-pp/comment-page-1/#comment-8368 Certifications and Software Development : Observations From Recent Blog Wars Mon, 28 May 2007 19:54:02 +0000 http://www.chrisholmesonline.com/2007/05/18/ayende-bashes-pp/#comment-8368 [...] Chris Responds [...] [...] Chris Responds [...]

]]> By: John Grace http://www.chrisholmesonline.com/2007/05/18/ayende-bashes-pp/comment-page-1/#comment-8281 John Grace Fri, 25 May 2007 23:00:49 +0000 http://www.chrisholmesonline.com/2007/05/18/ayende-bashes-pp/#comment-8281 Chris, Excellent comments and much appreciated if people like you didn't blog and bring balance to the discussion then I am quite sure a few folks would read Ayende’s comments and make the decision not to use the P&P projects. Also kudos to Sam http://codebetter.com/blogs/sam.gentile/archive/2007/05/25/on-cab-and-p-and-g.aspx I have been a big fan of the P&P team ever since the first application blocks were released several years ago. They have saved teams I have worked with countless man days to get projects delivered. Even better is when I do an interview for a hire and ask them have they ever worked with Enterprise Library and they answer yes then I know they have a good chance of hitting the ground running with us. To follow up with Nicholas's point the documentation\samples do need to be ramped up especially with respect to things like hands on labs. Take for instance the WCSF project http://www.codeplex.com/websf There are still no dedicated hands on labs several months after release (i know there was the workshop, which was excellent but much more is required). I know the documentation is the boring part but trust me it will reduce the barrier to entry for many developers. P&P team keep up the good work and remember, "You can keep some of the people happy all of the time, or all of the people happy some of the time, but you can’t keep all of the people happy, all of the time." Chris,

Excellent comments and much appreciated if people like you didn’t blog and bring balance to the discussion then I am quite sure a few folks would read Ayende’s comments and make the decision not to use the P&P projects.

Also kudos to Sam

http://codebetter.com/blogs/sam.gentile/archive/2007/05/25/on-cab-and-p-and-g.aspx

I have been a big fan of the P&P team ever since the first application blocks were released several years ago. They have saved teams I have worked with countless man days to get projects delivered. Even better is when I do an interview for a hire and ask them have they ever worked with Enterprise Library and they answer yes then I know they have a good chance of hitting the ground running with us.

To follow up with Nicholas’s point the documentation\samples do need to be ramped up especially with respect to things like hands on labs. Take for instance the WCSF project

http://www.codeplex.com/websf

There are still no dedicated hands on labs several months after release (i know there was the workshop, which was excellent but much more is required). I know the documentation is the boring part but trust me it will reduce the barrier to entry for many developers.

P&P team keep up the good work and remember,

“You can keep some of the people happy all of the time, or all of the people
happy some of the time, but you can’t keep all of the people happy, all of
the time.”

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